Responding to this comment about the timeline on the MetaFilter thread about MZB’s abuse and Breen’s case.
More correct timeline:
- Tor.com publishes their tribute piece on MZB’s birthday. (Now removed, see #3)
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I write my response piece and post a link to it on the Tor.com piece’s comments.
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When looking at my own comments, I notice a lot of hits coming from this File 770 piece that says Tor.com took down the MZB article.
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I’m not proud of this, but here it is. I post a childish gloat. I’d rather the original piece at least mentioned the bad stuff. Even a cursory sentence and we probably wouldn’t be here right now.
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A commenter on my original piece calls me out about my motivations, and, for the first time in 3 years, I re-read MZB’s depositions. Twice. Note that at this point, I haven’t yet read Lisa’s deposition. I thought I had three years ago, but no.
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I respond to my commenter with items out of MZB’s deposition. No further comments from them. (Given the family history there? I truly hope they’re okay. My heart goes out to them.)
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I write to both Moira and Stephen Goldin. I receive a response from Moira, which I asked for permission to post, and received that permission. I received no response from Stephen. (Update: he was offline at the time and has since commented.)
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Only after I read the MeFi thread did I read Elisabeth Water’s deposition, unaware that I’d missed possibly even more significant content. Ugh.
I’ll promote a paragraph from one of my comments into this post:
Many of us have been through some really dark times, and we have the pieces that spoke to our hearts that got us through those times. It genuinely gives me no joy to know that, for those whom MZB’s works were those pieces, I’ve dislodged that for them.
And I’ll add:
In addition to the lives she harmed, MZB’s works saved the lives of other people by speaking to them when other works and other people would not and/or did not.
Truly.
Rachel E. Holmen, who worked as an editor for Marion Zimmer Bradley’s Fantasy Magazine said about Marion:
When she visited cons, ten or twenty young women an hour would stop by with stories along the lines of “Your books saved my life.”
There are other writers being published now who may speak to those same hearts, but if MZB is still the author that would help them, then I think it’s important that her work be available to do so. This doesn’t diminish her very real (and very severe) failings.
Rachel’s quote points out why we need diverse books by diverse writers that speak to diverse audiences.
Additionally, MZB gave a start to a lot of women writers—a higher percentage than anyone else in the genre at the time. Those writers helped pave the way for even more female voices in the genre.
Including me.
“A Sword Called Rhonda” was in fact a parody of Mercedes Lackey’s works (specifically, Rhonda was a parody of Need), and Lackey was first published by MZB.
I think the Carl Sagan quote about books is a great way to end this.
See also: Paul St John Mackintosh’s article, “More on Marion Zimmer Bradley and the ethics of artists”, which takes a more intellectual approach.
Janni Lee Simner discusses what she and her husband did with the royalties they’d earned from sales to Marion’s anthologies. Thoughtful.
I would also be one of those people whose life was quite literally saved by Marion’s work. Not only her, but the other major authors I can remember are Piers Anthony (who has defended pedophilia in his work, and no, I’m not talking about the teen girls/older men, I’m talking about Firefly) and Mercedes Lackey (who wrote an incredibly transphobic short story in her latest Diana Tregarde collection and also signed that horrid petition).
It is saddening to me that authors whose work helped me so much, when I was isolated with a fundamental religious father. Marion in particular introduced me to queer characters, feminism, and polyamory, and considering that I was all of these things, and in an intolerant abusive family, her work is in part responsible for me not hating/killing myself.
I knew about the depositions and read them when I was 14 or so, because I was obsessed with Marion’s work and had the Internet, so I wanted to know All The Things. Lisa’s testimony is IMO more damning than Marion’s, because of Marion’s failing health and memory.
With Lisa’s commentary I had… wondered ever since if there had been abuse done to her children. The comment about “children don’t have erogenous zones” struck me as creepy, even at the age I read it, and seeing Moira’s e-mail and poetry now…
In some discussions, I am seeing people act as though this is a direct betrayal to Marion’s fans, especially those that, like me, are still alive today because of her work. And that upsets me a lot, because IMO, while it is really upsetting and shocking to find out these kind of things about an author who was so influential to you, that is IMO nothing compared to the abuse Moira went through — and moreover, that she has kept this a secret for so long.
But… and I’m not trying to compare… I know how I felt when my ex raped me two years ago and I was sure that nobody would believe me, and worse, that our mutual friends would rally around him instead (which is not what happened when I finally came forward, thank all the gods). Having that experience, and an abusive childhood, I really am very unhappy with the people who are re-focusing on the fans and acting as if they are the real victims.
Moira, I don’t know if you are still reading the comments here, but I believe you. I am so sorry for what you went through. That sounds like a cliche but words simply do not convey. I believe you, and at least in the areas I can reach, I refuse to let this be forgotten.
Thank you for wishing Moira well, and thank you for sharing your story.
Obviously, people will interpret things their own way, but posthumous discovery how deeply flawed a writer was doesn’t change the work. It does change the context, though.
It doesn’t change the fact that her work helped you. And others.
Nor does it change what happened to Moira.
We’re all flawed. Even significantly lesser flaws may be showstoppers for some people.
Dear Nonny,
Thank you so much for your comment and your kind words. I am trying to reread these things and respond after weeks frankly reeling. This hurts, it hurts so much, and your words make it hurt less.
I do not begrudge you any benefit you may have gotten from my mother’s words, please know that. Blessings to you, and much healing. –Moira Greyland
Wow so sorry for all of you who have been so terribly hurt and mistreated. While intimately she may have been a HORIBLY -misguided person, she was a truly amazing artist with her words. However it is to be said that THE WRITING WAS ALL OVER THE WALL in Mists of Avalon. Her books were extremely formative for me, while they did not get me through a hard time, they helped develop my view of the world. Thanks to her works I have become a lifelong Feminist, have begun to see the world in a view that is not so black and white, have become intensely interested in paganism, magick, Arthurian legend, Catholic mysticism, the blending and interconnectivity of cultures, as well I see my self and the world through older eyes of chivalry and mystery. If any family cares to reach out with information as to the inspiration for MOA, the true history that she based the books off of, and a list that places key items on the map from her book would be appreciated. I am deeply saddened by the proceedings and wish things were different. PLEASE DO NOT think of me as defensive and opportunistic! I truly reach out as a disturbed and concerned fan. I truly hope the beauty of her work is not diminished.
It should be noted that I read about sixty pages of Mists and I could not continue. It was simply too upsetting for me.
My thoughts and feelings about what I’ve learned about Marion Zimmer Bradley in the past week are so terrifying and heartwrenching. (I know, I’m late. Story of my life.)
I can’t bring myself to actually read the depositions. I skimmed her daughters poems briefly, but couldn’t even read that in earnest.
I feel betrayed and scared. I feel I shared my formative years with MZB. To discover she was a monster of the highest magnitude makes me wonder how much of that sickness may have seeped through the books into my brain as a teen? And how could the works of such a monster have resonated so deeply with me? Am I also a monster, or was I a monster as a young person? I can’t remember clearly…were the social interactions in those novels twisted and broken, as the author clearly was? Why didn’t I realize or recognize it at the time? Was it her influence that made me easy pickings for a narcissistic and abusive man later in my adulthood? Or was I naturally easy pickings…and that’s why I was drawn to both MZB and Phil?
And I am conflicted…I want to go back and see if I recognize the sickness now that I know it is there…but I also don’t want to seem to support MZB in any way. And I’m a little afraid of the books. I know how absorbed I was by them as a young person…would they damage me as an adult?
So many twisted thoughts.
You are not a monster. Finding common ground in the work of someone who later turned out to be a terrible person does not make you a terrible person. You didn’t know. The fact of how horrified you are speaks to that you are not like her. It is so hard to recognize these bad and abusive things, so hard to realize that the people you’ve looked up to have hurt you. But it is not your fault. It is never your fault that you were abused. We are taught to respond to authority and if we are raised by abusive people, then we are often also taught to obey other abusive people. It is really hard to break away from that and to stand up for yourself. But you do not deserve to be hurt. I hope you have someone you can talk to.
You are not a monster. All that was good of her was in her books. You did not know what she did, and nobody would expect you to be aware of what she was hiding. Evil is not contagious. You did nothing wrong.
If you choose to reread her works, you might see more of this. I, personally, could not read Mists because it reminded me of home.
Please do not let anyone else’s wishes or expectations govern yours, but take the best of what you learned, and steer your own course. Best wishes to you always,
–Moira Greyland.